Alcohol addiction, anxiety, and nervous system patterns, with Rachel Hechtman

In this episode of the Heallist Podcast, we explore the complex relationship between alcohol, addiction, anxiety, ADHD, and the nervous system with Sober in Central Park founder Rachel Hechtman, who shares her personal journey to sobriety alongside insights into the neurological and emotional patterns that shape addiction and recovery. The conversation looks at how alcohol impacts brain function, behavior, and long-term well-being, and how these effects may be experienced differently by individuals.

Drawing from her lived experience and ongoing work in the wellness space, Rachel offers perspective on the role of dopamine, the nervous system, and emotional regulation in addictive patterns. We explore how anxiety and ADHD can intersect with substance use, and how greater awareness of these connections may support more informed and compassionate approaches to healing. The episode also touches on practical strategies for reducing alcohol dependence, as well as the role of spiritual and vibrational practices in supporting transformation and recovery.

This episode is offered for educational and reflective purposes only. It does not provide medical advice or recommend specific treatments. Its goal is to add context to complex health decisions and highlight the value of informed, personalized care across medical and integrative paradigms. 

Key takeaways include:

•  Alcohol can function as a coping mechanism for anxiety and nervous system dysregulation 
•  Awareness and mindset shifts can help make more intentional choices and finding fulfillment
•  Understanding the nervous system can help guide a person's responses to stress 
•  Exploring healthier substitutes and spiritual practices may support new habits and routines 

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Transcript

Yuli 0:00

Welcome to the Heallist Podcast, where we unpack the many layers of holistic health. I'm Yuli, founder of Heallist, your portal to holistic healers worldwide. Now let's go deep. Hello, dear friends, and welcome to the Heallist Podcast. If this content resonates, please hit subscribe or follow to support us independent content as always. And today I'm talking with a dear friend and collaborator, Rachel Heckman, about something that doesn't get discussed enough in the wellness space: the relationship between addiction, alcohol, anxiety, and the nervous system. Rachel is a certified NLP practitioner and wellness coach who works with high-achieving women navigating sobriety and subconscious patterns. And what I find really interesting about her approach is how she connects the dots between ADHD, nervous system regulation, and the role alcohol often plays as a coping mechanism. So we'll get into what actually shifts when you remove alcohol from the equation to who this kind of work is right for and the real challenges that come up in the process. Rachel, I'm just so excited to have you. We know each other for quite some time, and I know we had those conversations in private many times, and you influenced me in so many ways that you're probably not aware of. But I'm just excited to bring your wisdom, your experiences to our audience and to this podcast. So welcome.

Rachel 1:29

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and chatting with you. Um, I've been wanting to come on your podcast, so yay.

Alcohol’s Hidden Health Costs

Yuli 1:37

Yes, we're finally making it happen. So really help us set the stage because I think a lot of people confuse maybe alcohol and its effects to something that is more kind of like a social behavior, obviously, that often we feel like some pressure for people starting to be more aware of the effects of alcohol to different areas of our life, anything from like slip to maybe like fertility, like different areas. But I feel like there's not this mass awareness about the real effect, like what is actually happening in our bodies. So can you help us unpack this?

Rachel 2:16

Yes, definitely. So what's happening right now with alcohol is a lot like what happened with cigarettes and big tobacco in the 60s and 70s, where people weren't aware how bad it was for their bodies and they just were consuming because that's what society kind of told you to do. And that's what the ads told you to do in the sexy ads of people smoking cigarettes and all even now when I see when I watch TV and there's like someone hot smoking a cigarette, I'm like, ooh, that kind of looks cool and sexy, right? But what's happening now with alcohol is people are finally getting the facts and waking up to the fact and getting educated that alcohol is directly linked to so many kinds of cancers in women. It's specifically linked to breast cancer. So the more you drink, the higher your risk goes up of getting breast cancer. And that is like a proven scientific fact. But for a long time, the alcohol industry has kind of hidden these things from us. And so people didn't really understand necessarily how bad it was. Yes, I think people are like, oh, it's not good for my liver. Okay, yes, we can all agree on that. But they didn't understand that it's affecting their sleep in a way where if you have more, even one drink affects your REM. It's like almost impossible for you to get into REM sleep when you've had alcohol in your system. And a lot of people, it's the norm for them to just like come home from work, even having a few drinks a night and going to bed. But in women, having more than I think two drinks a week is more than you should be having. So, you know, they've they've changed the guidelines around alcohol in the past few years. And I think people just don't want to accept it. Or if they do accept it, they're like, okay, well, what do I do now? Like alcohol has been a crutch for me. It's been, you know, just part of my routines and habits for so long. It's like a trusted friend to a lot of people, right? So, in order to actually change your habits and patterns, you have to change your mindset around it as well. But that can be scary, especially if you live in a place where the only thing you really know to do is to go out and drink. So, you know, there's just so much damage it does to the body in the long term, but also the short term. And I think, you know, COVID kind of made people realize we're not immortal. And, you know, why are we going out and drinking green juices and having our Pilates classes and trying to be healthy and then binge drinking or having a few drinks at night? It just doesn't make sense, right? Absolutely.

Yuli 4:32

And I can attest like firsthand, to me, what would changed my perception of alcohol is looking in the data. And we all can read this big research and it always feels kind of like distant. It will never happen to me. But when I look at my personal data, once I got my aura ring, this is actually when I stopped drinking. I still was drinking once in a while, then looking and continuing to look at the data. And then finally there was a moment I was like, there's like absolutely no benefit. When you see your REM goes to almost zero, when you see your HRV like totally going down, when you see your irregular heartbeats through the night, it is scary. And like to me, that was the moment when it finally registered. Because I feel like when people are reading that, kind of like the big researches, right? They it's always like this feeling, okay, well, this is not about me. This is about other people, right?

Rachel 5:21

Yeah, no, totally. And and also in even in little ways, like at least for myself, it held me back from being consistent in other areas in my life, from consistently wanting to work out every morning, from consistently wanting to do my meditations or do journaling, or, you know, it got in the way of that. And once I removed alcohol, I was able to actually feel good when I woke up every day and want to do these things that I had been trying to implement for so long, but I couldn't for some reason sustain, you know, because I was drinking or I would wake up with a hangover or I was busy out sitting in a dive bar.

Yuli 5:58

You're working with people who are trying to break the this addiction, right? What do you see as the moment that most people can like arrive to that conclusion?

Rachel 6:06

It really is different for everybody. You know, I think some people have a rock bottom moment where it hits them in the face and they realize I can't be doing this to my body anymore, or something happens that makes them scared for their health. I think that's some people. And I think other people, it's a lot of smaller things over time that kind of add up and they just like the cliche term of they get sick and tired of feeling sick and tired, right? So then there's the people that just decide it doesn't fit their lifestyle anymore. Like they realize that they're not operating at maximum capacity. They're not living up to their highest potential because they are numbing their feelings and they're doing damage to their body. So I actually think it's a huge scale for anybody. And I think we're in a new time in society where you don't need to have a problem to stop drinking alcohol. And I think for a long time, if you went and you told somebody, I mean it still happened today, like, oh, I don't drink anymore, people immediately assume that you have a problem. But I think now we're shifting into this wellness-centered time where if someone says, Oh, I don't drink alcohol, people aren't necessarily assuming you have a problem with alcohol. Maybe you're training for a marathon, maybe you just don't want to feel bad. But it really is all over the place. I mean, yes, some people message me after having a really scary thing happen to them and they need help navigating it. But what it all circles and bottles down to is you have to want to stop yourself. It can't be for somebody else. It can't be for any other reason than you personally do not want to drink anymore. So you just want to have to change.

Yuli 7:37

Absolutely. So let's talk about the neurological changes in our bodies and what actually happens in our brain. Because I know you also made some great connections between other different conditions that I think often people miss when they live with anxiety or ADHD. How is this all connected?

Rachel 7:56

Yeah. So a lot of people that come to me are women in their late 30s, 40s, 50s, even 60s, who their whole lives have been told that they have just anxiety or depression. And, you know, when we start working together, and I can tell since I'm ADHD, these are women who are undiagnosed ADHD and they've flown under the radar, maybe they're high achievers, but their brains work differently than the neurotypical person. But because they're still being able to succeed in work in school, they're working 10 times harder to get those results. They were able to, you know, not be diagnosed with ADHD. There's so many things that happen in the brain when you have ADHD, but the biggest thing is your brain doesn't produce as much dopamine naturally as the neurotypical person. So ADHD people are constantly searching for the next dopamine hit. Okay. And a dopamine hit can come from social media, it can come from reality TV, it can come from alcohol, which is a huge trigger. I mean, alcohol gives you that dopamine hit super fast. So when you, you know, you have that first drink, your brain's like ding, ding, ding, I got what I want. And it's like, give me more, give me more. That's why it's really hard for people with ADHD to only stop after one or two drinks, right? You just keep wanting to drink and then your body keeps looking for that reward, but it's never gonna get that same reward as it gets from that first drink. So you're searching and searching, and you keep drinking and drinking and drinking, and that's when the problems really start, right? So these women are then getting diagnosed and they're understanding about their brain, right? And once we can understand how our brains work, then we can kind of navigate different triggers and different things that are happening. But anxiety, depression, ADHD, they're all linked. They're all in like kind of like the same family, but there are healthy ways to get dopamine, such as exercising or cold plunges, right? Hot and cold therapy. That's an amazing way to build up the dopamine. Instead of finding the bad ways, which are like, you know, sitting in front of the TV and drinking, which a lot of people who are struggling with addiction um end up doing myself. Like that was something I love to do. There was nothing I loved more to do when I was still drinking than sitting at home watching TV with a drink in my hand. Okay. All ways of just numbing while getting dopamine, right? So we can switch that into finding the healthy ways, being outside, walking in nature, you know, talking to a friend, hot and code therapy, exercise, all of these things. So, you know, we have to first learn how our brains work and why we do certain things in order to then find the solutions, right? But a lot of times, if you don't know how your brain works, these women hate themselves because they're told they just have anxiety and depression, but really they're ADHD and they don't understand their brain. So they're mean to themselves and they have horrible self-talk. And that's a really horrible feeling, right? To think there's something wrong with you and no one else understands. Really, like there are solutions to this. And then you want to drink to numb that voice in your head that's not very nice.

Yuli 10:50

So, how do people find those solutions? I know there's a lot of information available out there today, but you need to want that information, right? I know there's incredible coaches and like people like yourself who help people to overcome because I think it's a process that might need some external guidance as well. It's really hard to navigate on your own, right? Yeah.

Rachel 11:16

And there are two separate things, right? And like what one is removing alcohol. It's very hard. It's almost impossible to navigate that all on your own, regardless of how much you're drinking, or regardless of if you have a problem or not. Like there are so many external things that happen that people want to talk about. And having a community and people who get it and understand and have been through it is super important. But same with something like having an ADHD diagnosis. So, for instance, I was diagnosed when I was like 15 years old. So I've had this diagnosis and I've had the time to try to kind of figure it out. And I'm still learning things about it every day. And I'm in my mid-30s. Then again, at the time when I was diagnosed, no one explained what it meant to me. They were just like, you have ADHD, take this pill and it's gonna help you. But that led me down a really dangerous path of addiction because I didn't realize my brain would be searching for all these things to make it feel good. So, you know, luckily though, with social media, while social media can be a negative form of dopamine and can have a lot of negative consequences to people, it can also be really helpful in terms of information. So if you look on social media, there is a ton of really amazing, you know, addiction and alcohol and ADHD content that people are posting that kind of break it down and really easy ways to digest so you're not feeling overwhelmed. But there are groups of people that meet online. No, there are so many different ways now to find that community and that connection and people who understand than there were 10 years ago. But yeah, coaching, working with a coach can be really, really helpful.

Yuli 12:49

Yeah, I just remember, you know, the times when the only option was AA, basically. And there's so much stigma around it, right? And it's for certain people, but most people don't feel like they're at that stage when they need to seek those groups. So most people kind of like fall in that middle, right? And they don't even realize that it's a problem they're having. They think it's just, you know, maybe something they need to work on. They're not at that stage to go to something like eight.

Rachel 13:17

Right. So the rule of thumb that we kind of have in in my community is if you're Googling it or you're questioning do I have a problem with alcohol, you do have a problem with alcohol because people who don't have problems aren't questioning it. And so that might be a hard pill to swallow, but it's just the truth. And another thing is if you have to drink to make it enjoyable, then whatever you're doing isn't actually enjoyable. And you really need to take a hard look at do I even like doing this? Right. For instance, going to the party. If you have to drink before going to socialize with a certain group of people, do you even want to be socializing with these people? And sometimes we don't want to confront the real answer to that question.

Yuli 13:58

But I feel like also being devil's advocate, right? I think a lot of people make the excuse of I just need to take off the edge when I go to social situations, or it's just because I'm an introvert, I need that extra help or boost. They don't necessarily connect that with addiction. What do you say to those people?

Rachel 14:18

Well, I think addiction is a strong word, right? Like no one wants to like say I'm addicted just because I need to take the edge off. But I think that first of all, there are other ways to take the edge off or feel more comfortable in social situations. But I think the bigger picture of it is those people have trained their brains to rely on alcohol in social situations, right? So it's gonna feel uncomfortable to not have alcohol in those situations because they've used alcohol as a crutch for so long and as a social lubricant, right? So when you remove it from your life, it's going to feel weird when you go into those situations for the first time, for the second time, third time. It's like a muscle that you have to like flex, right? You got to practice. And then after a few times, it's not as hard. And then it gets easier, and then you forget that you ever even really needed alcohol, right? I was like, I was somebody that needed to drink like before I did anything. I couldn't do anything social without a drink in my hand, or I wouldn't have wanted to go. So it just takes practice and it just takes time. And also, you can have something else, like an adaptogenic beverage or a kava beverage, or something else that can help you kind of relax without having all of the negative side effects and consequences that alcohol has.

Yuli 15:30

But what I love about what you do is that you turn kind of like your experience and some of those challenges that you're seeing with you and your clients, and you turn it into a whole business venture that now helps people. Um, well, one works with individuals and groups to help them through this process. And two, you also came up with a super creative way to work with new and innovative like beverage companies that actually help people to create a real alternative that is no longer harmful to their bodies. So, can you talk a little bit about that? How that came about?

Rachel 16:06

It definitely was not intentional. It was very organic, and I never in a thousand years thought I would have my own business, let alone be sober. Like that was never in the cards. I was somebody that I had many rock bottom moments, but I never like, you know, lost my life. Like, you know, I think people have like envision someone sitting on the side of the road with a paper bag in their hand. Oh, and that's what you have to get to stop drinking, but that's just not true. Like, you know, I had many moments over time that were scary and bad for me. And, you know, I eventually just didn't want to feel like crap all the time. I think when you're living in alignment, which I never was before I stopped drinking, and that was something I was always searching for. I was always searching for my purpose. I was always searching for what was I put on this earth to do? What am I supposed to be doing with my life? And I didn't know and I was really lost. And I think that actually fed into my drinking and numbing because it seemed like everybody else knew what they were doing. Everybody else had a career path. And I just, you know, I was working in nonprofit philanthropy and I liked that because I felt like I was doing something good for society, but I didn't feel like that's what I was supposed to be doing with my life. So, you know, when I got sober and I felt amazing and I had always believed that I needed alcohol to have fun. I was always obsessed with having fun. Like, how do I have the most amount of fun possible? Right. And to me, in my head, that was drinking, which is kind of crazy to think back on now because half the time I would just get so drunk I blacked out or so drunk that I fell asleep and I didn't even remember the night. So how was that fun? But when I stopped drinking and I started feeling amazing and the anxiety that I had in my chest for I couldn't breathe half the time, the anxiety was so bad and I couldn't do things by myself and it held me back from living. So when that went away and I started feeling good, and then I started having fun without alcohol, I was like, I need to scream this from the rooftops. Does everybody know this is a cheat code for life? Like, you don't need alcohol to have fun, and you can feel good all the time and you can sleep really well, and like your skin's better and you lose weight and everything, your relationships are better. I'm like, how does everyone know that you can just stop drinking? So I started sharing my journey on Instagram. I was about almost nine months sober. This is back in 2021. Now, if you look on Instagram, there's so many sober accounts. There's so many people doing this, but five years ago, there weren't. There were maybe a handful of people kind of sharing their journey, maybe some meme accounts. And I created a page to hold myself accountable and share my journey, but also to maybe make some friends, find a community and maybe reach someone out there who was struggling, right? I would make posts that if I I would try to think about the old version of myself, what would have made her stop scrolling? But I never thought that it would turn into anything. I thought it was just like a little Instagram account. But I then I started feeling so aligned with what I was doing. And I think when you're living in alignment, the universe just starts opening up for you. And, you know, I was already on a spiritual journey before I stopped drinking. Once I actually removed the alcohol, it exploded. You know, I truly believe that alcohol lowers our vibrational frequency. So when we remove it, it automatically will raise our vibration. And once the higher we vibrate at, the more we can manifest things in at that vibrational frequency, right? So I, you know, things just started falling into place and doors started opening and things started happening for me that I never imagined. And now here I am, you know, having my own business and I have people that work for me and I get to do really cool things. And, you know, it all stems back to the fact that I stopped drinking and really leaned into my my whole spiritual evolution. That I think when we're authentic and we follow the signs from the universe, the coolest, craziest stuff can happen.

Sound Frequencies And Affirmations

Yuli 19:54

I love your story so much. And you mentioned some spiritual practices that you've opened up to. What do you feel that is really that you've seen also, you know, what helped you? What's helpful to some of the people that you're seeing in the space you're working with?

Rachel 20:11

I would say one of the biggest ones that's like the easiest to incorporate into your life is sound frequencies. So before I stopped drinking, you know, I had this massage therapist and she told me that she was like, Do you know there are healing frequencies from sound that can help heal your back and they can help alleviate pain and that you can even manifest money? And I was like, wait, from listening to sounds? That's crazy. So years before I stopped drinking, I started kind of listening to some of these sound frequencies. And what I would do is I would put them on before I went to bed and I would just like sleep with them on all night. And I actually think it really helped me. And I still listen to them to this day. Like you can listen to ones to manifest in love or chakra alignment and all these different things are all at different hurts. So, you know, I always have asked my clients to kind of start using sound frequencies for whatever they need because it's not hurting you, right? And I think if we can subconsciously raise our vibrational frequency, that's how the universe speaks. It speaks through vibrations and frequencies, right? So that's definitely one of them. And the other big one is saying affirmations. I think a lot of times people think, oh, affirmations don't do anything, or that's like childish, or that's silly, but that's not true. The subconscious mind listens to what we say, right? So if we're constantly walking around being like, I'm stupid, or that was dumb, or oh, why did I do that, or I'm pissed at myself or something I did five years ago, or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like our subconscious mind hears that and it keeps us in this lower vibrational space. But if we start saying to ourselves nice things that in looking at ourselves and believing them and saying it, even if you don't believe it, your subconscious mind's gonna hear it. And eventually it will start believing it. And first your subconscious believes it, and then maybe you believe it. And that's kind of what happened to me. So, you know, the practice of saying affirmations. Energy affirmations, personal affirmations, whatever they are, and listening to these sound frequencies, those are like my two biggest hacks, I would say.

Yuli 22:08

I love that. I love that you mentioned those as well. And I agree, sound is just such an easy way to incorporate. You literally don't need to do anything. Just being exposed to that and consciously, right? It really can do wonders. And I wanted to also give you space to maybe share some of your story because you mentioned it like several times in the conversation. But I think it will be really helpful for people to understand how far you've come from, you know, where you ended up with this addiction and that you mentioned before and how transformational your journey was.

Finding the Path From Drinking To Sober

Rachel 22:46

Well, thank you. It was a journey, honestly. I started drinking when I was the summer before my freshman year in high school. And, you know, we moved around a lot when I was a kid. I was always the new kid, you know, at very pivotal times in my life from first grade, sixth grade, eighth grade, different states. And I think that that caused trauma in terms of, you know, always trying to make new friends and not knowing where I fit in. And so when I got to Connecticut in eighth grade, I kind of fell in with the popular kids. And, you know, I started drinking the summer before ninth grade. And I just loved the way I felt. I loved that feeling numb and not my anxiety kind of went away. And I didn't really, I thought that that's what everyone did. I thought it was cool. But things spiraled out of control pretty quickly. You know, I started doing drugs when I was 15 and my parents got divorced, and I actually got sent to boarding school to repeat 10th grade, which is pretty common in the prep school world. But it was at boarding school, like my second sophomore year, that a teacher asked me one day if I had forgotten to take my medication for the day. And I was like, I'm not on any medication. I don't know what you're talking about. And the teacher was like, Oh, well, you need to be assessed for ADHD. So I got assessed and diagnosed and put on medication. And that was a huge pivotal turning point in my life because I started excelling in school and doing really well academically. And I had thought that there was a problem with me. Like I thought I was broken and I couldn't concentrate, but really I had a neurodivergent brain that I, you know, wasn't being supported. So after I got put on medication and was doing well, everyone thought, well, she's fine. We don't need to worry about her. But then I got to college and it just really spiraled out of control. I just was addicted to the party, I like to say. And it was a scary time for my mental health. You know, I was at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire. There's not much to do there except drink in frat basements. There's no city or anything like that. So, you know, binge drinking was the norm. And, you know, I surrounded myself with people that were also doing that. And I didn't think it was weird. I thought that was just with what you did. But the longer you do something, the more it becomes a habit, the more it becomes routine and the more your your brain normalizes it. And so I took two medical leaves from school for my mental health. One of them was really scary. You know, I knew that I probably needed to get sober one day. Like I knew that for a long time. But actually saying it out loud and doing it is a totally separate feat. And then after college, you know, I got a job in toxic workplace culture, you know, going to happy hours after work every night, getting really drunk, waking up and going to work with a hangover every day. You know, it was just that constant cycle. And that is so depressing. And, you know, after a while, it really takes a toll on you. And I remember there were times where I just like couldn't get off the couch. I was so depressed. Um, and I started wanting to drink alone. And, you know, once we're starting to actively want to be alone and drink by ourselves, that's like a really dangerous place to be. It's also really lonely. So that went on for a while. I was in a relationship that I knew I shouldn't be in anymore. Like there was nothing bad about it. We just weren't right for each other, but I didn't have the confidence or the courage to end it. And that also caused me to drink more. And I didn't like my job. I didn't like so many things in my reality, but I didn't, I felt stuck and I didn't know how to change any of them. I, you know, the thought I I didn't like change as it was. And I would go around and tell people I don't like change. But no, when it's so many different things, like it's was so much easier to just like not think about any of it and just drink and numb it all out and not not worry about anything. But then COVID happened and I had been praying for there to be a pause in life for so long because I my life felt like it was spiraling out of control and I just didn't know what to do. And then when COVID happened, I was like, oh my gosh, did I manifest this? But it provided this time where I didn't have all of the things that I used to worry about, I didn't have to worry about anymore. And all the things that I would blame on my drinking were gone. So I got, you know, I got furloughed from my job and then and then let go because of COVID. I, the apartment that I lived in with my now ex, we moved out of and I was staying at my mom's home in New Hampshire. She wasn't in. I thought that if I could just binge watch TV and drink and eat whatever I wanted, I'd be happy. But I got all those things and didn't have to worry about the real life responsibilities, and I was still not happy. And so that period of time, I think, was really pivotal and really crucial to my journey. I don't know if I would have gotten sober without COVID, but it it just showed me that, like, actually, my drinking is the problem and I'm creating this for myself. And if I want to have any kind of life that I'm proud of or that I feel good about, or how do I wake up in the morning and want to better myself, then I can't be drinking until I pass out on the couch every night. So that realization happened in June of 2020, and I was the heaviest weight I'd ever been in my life, and I felt awful all the time. So, you know, it took another six months for me to actually get sober. But in June 2020 is when I started saying affirmations in the mirror. It's like when my therapist tried to have me work on my self-talk. Cause I think that's where it really all starts from is how we're talking to ourselves. But then in January 2021, I'm back in New York City. And, you know, my mom kind of gently asked me if I would do dry January with her. And at first I said no. And then on January 3rd, I still had a hangover from New Year's, and I reluctantly agreed to try it. Like, why not? Let's just see what happens. And, you know, I'm so all or nothing. I really wanted to lose a lot of weight. If my sister was getting married and I was the maid of honor, and so I had this big goal, and I decided to try Weight Watchers the same day I quit drinking because in my mind, I was like, I've tried to do Weight Watchers before, but I would always drink all the points that they give you. And so it never really worked. And so I was like, well, if I'm not drinking, maybe it will actually work because I won't drink my points. And so, you know, they say don't do everything at once, but for me, that's exactly what I did, and it worked. And I somehow was able to go 30 days without drinking. And that was my only goal. 30 days. Like I didn't even think I was gonna make it 30 days, but I didn't think past that. That was the only goal. So I make it to the end of January. And I think because there were no, there was nothing going on, it was still COVID. So there were no work parties, there were no birthday parties, there were no celebrations, there was nothing happening to tempt me to go out and drink. At the end, I was like, whoa, let me just see how long I can go. Like I feel so good. My anxiety's never been lower. I'm starting to lose weight. I I just feel good. Let's see how long I can go before I have a drink. Now it's been over five years. And yeah, it just all started from that small goal of dry January.

Yuli 29:57

That's incredible. I love this story so much. And you know, what's interesting also, well, first of all, the the personal journey, like the decision that you made, it just like so it takes so much strength. And uh I applaud you for that. But I think what you shared in your story also tells us a lot how much you were influenced by some of those societal, like preconditioned like stories and and stereotypes around like what social life should be like when you're in college, what your life should be like when you're like young professional in New York City, and you go into like happy hours and a lot of the social life that stories that were told, there they were surrounding alcohol. And I think just sharing more of stories like yours and really helping people kind of like unravel that story that we're old, kind of grew up on, and we have to like erase from our minds and create our own stories, I think is just so important.

Rachel 30:59

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And I think that's why I, you know, started sharing my journey because I was trying to make it cool. I was like how, you know, it it is cool. It's cool to feel good. It's cool to not have to go out and you know, wake up in the morning and be like, who did I text? Do I have all of my belongings? I mean, that's how it was always for me. It was the panic of is my purse here? Is my phone here? Sometimes it wasn't. But I I just went on this mission to show people you don't need booths to have fun. You know, you can live a life without it that is amazing. But I think, you know, and then more people than ever now are sharing their journeys without it. And I think that is really cool because sometimes it just you just have to see it online and you have to to know that it's possible.

Yuli 31:44

Right. And that's how it becomes a new norm, right? Like the more people like yourself that seeing so I think it's very brave what you're doing. And I know you're sharing a lot of personal vulnerable stuff, and it's not easy. It's not easy, but I think it's really important work, and then also the fact that you turn your story to something that is now your practice and part of your mentorship and coaching for and helping others, I think that's really incredible. Thank you.

Rachel 32:11

Thank you. It's I mean, there's really no greater feeling than being on someone's journey in their first 90 days, first six months of not drinking and watching them transform and helping them and being there with them. That it's, you know, it's it's incredible.

Yuli 32:26

Well, keep doing what you're doing, please, and stay in our orbit and keep influencing other people. It was such a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much for having me on, Yuli.